Curse

Saerden · Jul 26, 2005, 07:29 AM // 07:29

hahaha transfering 100k gets their attention. Thanks for telling me, i go open my bot service

It seems that everyone in this thread chooses to ingore pvp. You dont work for pvp by unlocking stuff. You destroy your pvp skills by unlocking stuff (though henchmen AI > most PUGS). So if you want to work for pvp, you "HAVE" to buy an unlocked account ... [If you have a good guild you found before GW, it does not matter. You will get rushed, given unIDed runes etc. then you can farm low level GvG with smurf guilds to unlock weapon upgrades, the missing runes, and hard to get elite skills]

PieXags · Jul 26, 2005, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Er...I'm not sure, I really understood...any of that. I missed something.

Ebay money = bad

That's what ruins the economy, rich peoples who keep buying pricey items from peoples, while the poor peoples...stay poor, since they can't compete with those prices. Well, unless they buy from people off Ebay.

But...yeah...whatever. I've stopped caring about the overall economy, I buy what I need if I'm able, and sell what I can to do so. If it's screwin' up the economy, well...it can't get much worse.

Hell Marauder · Jul 26, 2005, 10:35 AM // 10:35

The day when all this ebay bidding/selling ends is the day when a collector item is worth the same as that ultra uber weapon with same stat.

Stur · Jul 26, 2005, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Marauder

The day when all this ebay bidding/selling ends is the day when a collector item is worth the same as that ultra uber weapon with same stat.

It’s a billion dollar industry by some accounts, that day will never come my friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

And I get kind of sick of pointing out that by buying gold online, you affect the playing experience of every other GW player. If you're too ignorant to notice, or too unscrupulous to care, fine. But I'd really like it if people would stop claiming buying gold doesn't hurt anyone. It has hurt many online games to the point where it caused a significant player exodus already, these are practical examples of the botting/buying system at work, this is not just elaborate speculation.

This issue happens to be one of my points of interest when it comes to these games. I have never found anything that offered solid proof that this caused people to leave games, in fact if the numbers are to be believed the people buying far outnumber the people complaining. Even when Sony decided to start allowing this type behavior on some of their servers, no where in their reasons for doing it did they list trying to correct some virtual economic disaster. They say they where doing it to PROTECT the people doing it. Sony is in essence taking the e-bay out of e-baying to protect their players from fraud. I’ve written many online publishers asking about the reason that have for being against this type of behavior and by far the biggest answer is that the bottom line is other people are making money off their hard work and not paying royalties for that profit. In a why I understand that but more companies are going to have to take direct action and follow the lead of SOE or this problem will never go way.

Weezer_Blue · Jul 26, 2005, 12:48 PM // 12:48

A.Net nerfs drops in order to bring down the prices and stall inflation,
People find that they can't get the money to pay up for people still trying to sell their items for huge prices
They go to ebay and pay 4 bucks to get enough money to do whatever they want
Because of this, the people selling their items for rediculous prices continue to do so
As a side effect, those who don't Ebay money get left in the dust because they can't afford anything anymore
Even the rune/material/dye traders are effected, because players are willing to pay high and high costs - and yet the buy price is always low due to a bad script

...do I have anything to back it up? no, it's theoretical. but I don't think it's far fetched.

Stur · Jul 26, 2005, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Your point is valid but you are leaving out an important variable in your equation. People that play games tend to get bored with them, and when they do they move on. Some companies actually release the numbers of accounts canceled vs. those created. When people quit games they more often than not just quit. Trying to sell accounts is a pain and most people don’t bother, so if you have 20 (old school) players quit in one month taking all their accumulated wealth with them to the ether, and in that same month you have 20 (noobs) start the game, that accounts for a good bit of money leaving the system. Granted no one (quits) GW it’s free, but a lot do get bored and leave.

Silmor · Jul 26, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Stur, people don't have to leave before the ruining of their gaming experience 'counts'. Many people continue to play games despite rampant botting making the game miserable for them, they stick with it out of loyalty for the game, because they're too attached to their characters, etc. Game companies don't seem to publish much information on what causes people to leave their game (I'm sure they will want to gather this information though), so it's hard to support either side of the argument with numerical data - there's merely a wealth of experiences to go by.

Maybe the number of new players outweighs the number of bot-related quitters, but in regard to the problem at hand, the new players will not know about the problem, while the people who quit do.

Xue Yi Liang · Jul 26, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartans

OK missing the point here, for you spending a lot of time farming is part of the game, thats what rewards
you

Not ME! Not I!

I absolutely do not care one little bit what items you have and what you do with your character, it does not affect me and never will. I have my own game to play.

I find my challenges doing things I like to do.

Play how you like, i have no problem with that, just dont tell others what gets their rocks off in the game - you dont know!

Kind of get sick of pointing that out

#1. Take your Prozac before you post pls - no reason to get mad.

#2. You're right. I can't tell you what "gets your rocks off in the game." And, no doubt, someone can have more fun paying for GW gold on eBay. I'm also sure that same argument can be applied towards people who say that using bots, exploits and cheats lets them concentrate on the elements of the gaming experience that's meaningful to them.

I didn't mean to imply that earning your gold during gameplay is supposed to be as fun for you as it is for me, but the issue with buying GW gold on eBay, using bots and using exploits is a matter of principle, not just about personal gaming experience.

#3. Before you respond, please take a deep breath and see rule #1.

BTW - It doesn't matter what I think is "right" and "fair." I'll leave that for ArenaNet to decide. IMO there will always be people who work around the rules in some way or another to gain advantage - every game is like that. I don't lose sleep over it.

Snuk the Great · Jul 26, 2005, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarkii

Its unfair if a guy has better stuff, just because he has more money, and its not unfair if a guy has better stuff, just because he has more time , yes?

Please read through all the posts, before posting.
Time IS Money.

Then this leaves you with one of the oldest problems in the world. Some people work realy hard at factorys (like my father) and some poeple work as managers. Both of these work the equel amount of time. Though the manager ends up with a lot more cash. Which in some people eyes make this person succesfull.
Now the factory worker is playing GuildWars. He is quite proud of its accomplishments and realy shows it around. Now the manager sees that, buys something even better on ebay and here you go again. The rich taking away the last peice of dignety of the factory worker.

Now you might reply that the factory worker is stupid to think this way. Though lots of them DO (not factory workers alone, but people as a whole

think this way. Now I find it unfair for these people that even there last escape from reality is being destroyed by people that had just a bit more luck on their side in real life.

In other words. for some poeple a MMORPG is an escape from real life. An escape to where they can start all over and maybe have luck on their side for maybe just a small while. Now who am I to take away that last peice of selfrespect.

NIB · Jul 27, 2005, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Quote:

And I get kind of sick of pointing out that by buying gold online, you affect the playing experience of every other GW player. If you're too ignorant to notice, or too unscrupulous to care, fine. But I'd really like it if people would stop claiming buying gold doesn't hurt anyone. It has hurt many online games to the point where it caused a significant player exodus already, these are practical examples of the botting/buying system at work, this is not just elaborate speculation.

So we might stop all real life trading, cause you might be actually buying something that it is stolen? The fact that many of those ebay money come from bots, doesnt mean much. Its Anet's issue to solve. Some of that money might come from real players who just wasted tons of personal time and they want to earn some money from that.

So you just reward their time and effort. Nothing lame or disasterous here. How to stop botters? Well they could add a mechanism so that when it detects that you are doing exactly the same thing for more than 1 hour, you get a message asking you to write down the numbers/letters that a picture has(similar to the forum bot control mechanism). If you fail to do that within 15mins, you are kicked out of the game. If you repeatingly fail to do that check, your account is disabled. Of course an email and lots of warning are given to the player before the account is disabled.

It might be an extra hassle for players(like waste 1sec every hour to fill out the control mechanism), but it will remove the bots. Or Anet can sit down and find a better way to stop bots. But just cause there are bots or thiefs, doesnt mean that we should stop all trading or that trading is lame.

Quote:

Then this leaves you with one of the oldest problems in the world. Some people work realy hard at factorys (like my father) and some poeple work as managers. Both of these work the equel amount of time. Though the manager ends up with a lot more cash

The manager is way more qualified than the factory worker. The manager is in a position, that his actions can benefit the factory a lot more than the worker. The worker is easily replacable. 1 managerial decision can turn a company upside down. 1 worker cant affect a company at all. The manager deserves his inflated paycheck cause of the extra authorities he/she has.

Quote:

Now the factory worker is playing GuildWars. He is quite proud of its accomplishments and realy shows it around. Now the manager sees that, buys something even better on ebay and here you go again. The rich taking away the last peice of dignety of the factory worker.

Not really. If anything, everyone is equal on gw. Does it matter if you have an ascalon bow or a stormbow? Of course not. In fact 99% of the time, your ascalon bow will have way superior stats than a stormbow. So you are more efficient in game than the stormbow person. You can even make fun of the stormbow user, cause he/she has a weaker bow which cost a fortune.

Quote:

Now I find it unfair for these people that even there last escape from reality is being destroyed by people that had just a bit more luck on their side in real life.

Luck has very little to do with it(most of the time). Its all about will and determination. Assuming that you live in US or in a EU country, you will have your chance to succeed. And it will be up to you to do it. We could talk about luck when it comes to some poor child who is born in africa, but when it comes to western societies, luck doesnt play a big enough part to matter.

Quote:

In other words. for some poeple a MMORPG is an escape from real life. An escape to where they can start all over and maybe have luck on their side for maybe just a small while. Now who am I to take away that last peice of selfrespect.

As i explained over and over again on this post and on my previous ones, guildwars is 1 of the most communist(in a good way) games out there. Even the poorest person can get the best weapon. The fact that you can pay more money to buy a better looking one, doesnt mean anything when it comes to in game efficiency. Go get an ascalon bow and laugh with those who spend a fortune to get a crappier(stat wise) stormbow.

Saerden · Jul 27, 2005, 11:36 AM // 11:36

... no more needs to be said. if you thing that some useless manager benefits humanity more then a factory worker or a nurse ...

Its not about will and determination. Its pure statistical luck. There where millions of people who tried as hard as for example Bill Clinton. He just had statistical luck to get through... noone talks about the remaining 999.999...
Its not effort alone that makes the poor succeed. Or else we would only have millionaires. Its fact that as long as the probability is is not exactly 0, someone will do it someday. Few will admit that Fortuna chose them. No, they did it all by hard work ...

Stev0 · Jul 27, 2005, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Buying drugs supports terrorism.

(read into that and apply it here).

spartans · Jul 28, 2005, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Guild wars is only a game.
Why are we talking about terrorism and management?

ShinJin Kahn · Jul 28, 2005, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Cos they are analogys of whats happening here, people use analogys to help other people see a certain situation in a differn't light, in this case terrorists = botters, drugs = ebay money.

All in all, I belive that buying gold from ebay could possibly hurt the econ more then it could help it, but thats the players fault for selling stuff at stupid prices.

Storm bow for 300k?, how the hell am i ever going to be able afford that without farming or buying gold?, and if I farm it'll take 3 FULL days of farming, thats if i dont get banned/suspended first.
Also, the reason people farm or buy gold is cos no-one likes being left out, when i see people with gold this and gold that, black 15k armour or FoW armour, They want it too, as quickly as possible, it makes you feel good when you have good things, even if it's stolen.

Just so people dont forget, if i wanted and max damage axe 15>50 with vamp 3/1 and fort 30 the cost would be astronomical.

Clean 15>50 - 50k
3/1 Vampiric - 75k if lucky
30 Fortitude 75k if lucky again

People think they can take the piss and thats whats ruining everything.

Numa Pompilius · Jul 28, 2005, 11:59 AM // 11:59

That's like complaining that the US economy is hosed because Ferraris are expensive.

ShinJin Kahn · Jul 28, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Please dont forget that guild wars = video game.

Teklord · Jul 28, 2005, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Short and simple.

Let see, it appears the max gold any one character can carry is 100K.. and thus the max that can be traded during any one transaction is 100K. As this is the design, it is quite clear that items were never designed to ever be worth more than 100K at the extreme top end.

100K+ items, what a joke.

LadyTheif · Jul 28, 2005, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Don't make ebay sellers richer because they have maybe more time to play then you online. It's better if you just do it yourself.

Bml Angrymuffin · Jul 30, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

well, i dont ebay and i have a lot of gold, and it doesnt take me 30 hours .. doesnt even take me 2 hours... just think outside the box... stop trying to assume farming is only way to make gold.. try other methods.. my methods are great and i can make 100k+ on a given day in a short amount of time

the bloodthirst · Jul 30, 2005, 06:44 AM // 06:44

buying ingame materials on line is probably the stupidest thing you could do. i agree that it sucks how hard it is to make some cash now. however, dont go so low as to buy ingame material off of ebay. Getting that 15k armor will be the last thing you spend money on in the game. once you get that armor and you have your weapon and shield/focus item you dont need money anymore. buying money off of ebay only takes away from the game by shortening the game time. You will have your armor but you will have no fulfillment.